Interview with Roland Warzecha

Roland Warzecha has been a devoted re-enactor since the early 1990s and practiced according combat sports. From 2000 to 2005 he received thorough martial arts training by Axel Wagener and Heiko Lempio in escrima-based UCC (Ultimate Close Combat) and acquired profound knowledge of essential martial concepts. He has been engaged in HEMA since 2003. His prime subject of research is fighting with sword and buckler according to MS I.33 and later German masters like Lignitzer, Talhoffer and Kal.

Furthermore, he is working on reconstructing single combat with center-gripped round shields and medieval triangle shields. He closely co-operates with international experts, scientists and museums.

Roland became a member of HEMAC in 2007 and of CFAA in 2011. For years, he was instructor at HEMA club Hammaborg, which he had co-founded. In 2013 he started his own school, Dimicator. He initiated the Berlin Buckler Bouts, a regular event hosted by Twerchhau. He has successfully participated in a number of international tournaments and won buckler competitions in La Coruña, Spain, and Gothenburg, Sweden. He has taught classes in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Italy, New Zealand and the USA. 

Can you tell everyone your martial arts background and how you first became interested in HEMA, and then especially how you first became involved in research?

I have always been interested in sword-related subjects. Prince Valiant with his Singing Sword was a hero of my childhood – and I still enjoy reading Hal Forster’s fantastic comic books even today! The comics had stirred my interest in the Viking Age, and I read every book about the Viking Age I could get my hands on. So not surprisingly, I became a devoted Viking re-enactor in the early 1990s, and I trained and enjoyed the combat sports that is still being practiced in this community today. However, I had always been aware that its rules and safety precautions rendered it a sport. Plus, the weapon simulators were optimized for this modern context and differed from the original arms in many respects, most notably their proportions, which made for very different handling characteristics. In order to widen my scope, I picked up traditional martial arts. From 2000 to 2005 I was trained by security experts Axel Wagener and Heiko Lempio in escrima-based UCC (Ultimate Close Combat) and acquired profound knowledge of essential martial concepts. I owe them big time. I would be nowhere near where I am today without their tuition.

In 2003 I became engaged in HEMA. Enthusiastically I attended according events all over Europe, purchased every related publication and joined the online forums of the day where I got in touch with practitioners, researchers and instructors from all around the globe. With the help of my friend Dierk Hagedorn, my Hamburg based training group Hammaborg, founded in 1999, was gradually transformed into a HEMA club that still exists today. As my expertise and reputation grew, I was invited to teach at events myself. By now, I have taught classes in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Italy, the UK, New Zealand and the USA.

Because of my involvement in living history, I had quite an extensive library on medieval arms long before I had picked up historical martial arts. It was evident to me that sound research into the material culture is crucial to the reconstruction of medieval swordsmanship, too. It is not possible to understand a craft without close examination of the associated tools. To get a first-hand impression of medieval weaponry, I first contacted arms collections about 15 years ago, and thanks to the kind support by scholars and curators, I have by now examined swords and shields in numerous museums all over Europe and in the US.

In the HEMA community, you are most well known for your work with sword and shields of various kinds, especially MS I.33 work with sword and buckler. What first attracted you to the in-depth study of fighting with swords and shields and MS I.33 in particular?

My focus has always been fighting with sword and shield. As a sword geek and a reenactor, I had to pick up a shield, too, as this was the appropriate weapon set for my most favorite period. So naturally, when I had learned about the existence of medieval fight books, I was most interested in the MS I.33, being the sole manuscript that covers sword and shield exclusively. However, a reproduction of the manuscript had rested on my shelf for at least two years before I finally started to work on my own interpretation. I think it was only after I had attended some classes with well known I.33 instructors in the early 2000s that I decided to give it a try myself. With my martial arts background, I felt I had something useful to contribute. 15 years later, I.33 still is the main source at my current school Dimicator, in addition to Lignitzer, Talhoffer and conceptual teachings of the Liechtenauer tradition and, more recently, some later rapier traditions, thanks to the most valuable input of my fellow instructor Cornelius Berthold. All the while I continued reconstructing single combat with center-gripped round shields of the Viking Age, and, thanks to a further initiative of Cornelius, we expanded the field of research to include medieval kite and triangle shields, too. Earlier Germanic shields of the Roman Iron Age have been added on my list, too, ever since my longterm training partner and archaeologist Ingo Petri started to work at a museum which is devoted to Roman-Germanic conflict of the first century AD.

When was your "ah ha!" moment when you realized Viking-style shields and the so-called heater shields were used in conjunction with the arming sword and could be used to block out the opponents shield vis-a-vis MS I.33?

In all fairness, it was Australian instructors and authors Stephen Hand and Paul Wagner who first applied late medieval fight book concepts to Viking shields. I read about it in the first SPADA volume, and I was intrigued by their approach and picked up where they left.

For many years, I did actually not believe that late medieval buckler combat and fighting with early medieval round shields had all too much in common, because the former is all about blade binds and the latter focuses on shield binds. However, the more expertise I gained in sensing pressure and using geometry and tempo, the more apparent the mutual concepts became. This was a gradual process. But in regards to swordsmanship in general, I did indeed have my Eureka! moments. I would say the most important one for me was realizing that entering a fight under cover from thrusting/longpoint distance and striving to gain the center, is and has always been the only safe way to approach a sword-fight. This was very different to what I had learned in my escrima days, when I was admonished to always strike to the head straight away. I still owe huge dents in my helmets and deep notches in my old training blades to this aggressive approach. I actually still consider it the biggest misconception of many Liechtenauer disciples even today, and the number of broken digits despite heavy gauntlets bears testament to it. Entering under cover and moving in True Times made a huge impact on my fighting and my ideas, and is most definitely a pre-requisite for safely fighting without protection and with sharp weapons.

Not everyone endorses your interpretations of MS I.33 nor do they believe the large Viking-era shields were used in the style you have worked out; as a researcher, how do you respond to people who dismiss your work because it doesn't fit their preconceived notion of how shields were used?

Actually, at the beginning of every class of mine, I encourage attendees to question my approach and conclusions. Particularly when there is no living martial tradition, understanding why you practice something in a specific way helps tremendously, and even puts you in a position to correct mistakes and work on your flaws yourself. Or reveal the flaws of others. I always lay out my arguments and explain what my teachings are based upon, but as soon as somebody would come up with a better idea, I would happily adopt it. I have done so repeatedly in the past, and I hardly do anything the way I did it five years ago. An open mind, constructive criticism and constant re-assessment is the way to get ahead and to achieve excellence. I am regularly available for hands-on discussion and sparring at the Berlin Buckler Bouts, and any decent person with a serious interest is welcome to find me there.

Let us not forget that the best reconstruction of medieval swordplay will still remain an educated guess at best. We grew up in a completely different environment and culture then medieval people, and when it comes to historical sword-fighting, modern practitioners and scholars equate to virgins talking about sex. Some virgins are better informed than others, but virgins never-the-less.

In addition to your specific work with sword and shields, you are also well known for proper body mechanics and keen kinesthetic awareness. How did you come to develop this high level of proper body movement and to apply it to the fighting arts?

Quite frankly, I wonder how one could be a martial arts instructor without profound knowledge of body mechanics. Martial arts use the human body to its optimum in any given close combat situation. If your action is not optimal in regards to physics and anatomy, it is not martial arts. It is probably still fighting, but in terms of martial arts, you have failed – and this would be the end of it against a more skilled opponent. True fights are lost. Only in sports, you try to score and win. In martial arts, you try to prevail by not committing a mistake.

I was first introduced to the idea that all close combat systems share the same concepts by my UCC instructors Axel and Heiko (see above). I was intrigued by their way of teaching martial arts: they used technique training to convey the underlying principles that make technique work in the first place. So in contrast to the common notion that martial arts is but a collection of cool combat tricks, with the one knowing more stunts beating the one who is only familiar with less, learning to excel in combat is about understanding the principles and then condition your body by practice to replace instinctive responses by martially sound ones. In theory, once you move in full accordance with martial arts principles all the time, you can forget all technique, because anything you do will inevitably be proper martial technique anyway. Stephen Pearlman’s most recommendable "Book of Martial Power" describes exactly this same approach, too. Because a weekend class is not even sufficient to learn to master one single technique, my classes are designed to provide attendees with an understanding of why a particular action will ultimately work once you have ingrained it in your body by endless repetition. With understanding, you can train and correct yourself, at least to a certain level.

It can be hard enough going through manuals and treatises to reenact the old fighting arts, but trying to entirely reconstruct arts based only upon illustrations in period books and other non-martial sources must be exceedingly daunting. What is your process for figuring out the natural flow and ebb of things when you have little to work from?

It says in the manuscript HS 3227a, 13v: "And before all things and matters / you shall note and know /that there is only one art of the sword / and it may have been found and invented many centuries ago / and it is the foundation and the core of all fighting arts."

So even at the time of the fight books, there was an awareness of the holistic nature of martial arts and the fact that these long preceded the time of the contemporary authors and masters at arms. I am deeply convinced that refined martial arts is as old as the earliest daggers and swords which had been designed with a combat context in mind (in contrast to hunting weapons and tools like axes and knives). This means that martial arts were probably developed when human communities started to grow crops and began to organize the protection and defense of their settlements.

If indeed all martial arts are based on universal principles which are defined by anatomy and physics, then it should be possible to reconstruct any fighting art. However, as you know, despite universal concepts, there is no universal martial art! This is because efficiency alone has never been the sole criterion. Any martial art is a product of a specific culture, and a society’s views and ideas have a profound impact of how its combatants fight. Many medieval fight books start with a preamble, admonishing the young knight to remain true to chivalric ideas, for example. Violence does not happen in a vacuum. Reconstructing the socio-cultural context of a given martial art is the hardest part, and some of it is lost forever and impossible to reconstruct. Fortunately, the context of action is also coined by other factors, such as the arms and armor, much of which has survived. This, in combination with period iconography, and more detailed sources from earlier or later periods, plus an understanding of martial arts, forms the basis of my reconstructions.

Related to the previous question, how do you test for validity once you piece something together to make sure it's martially sound without having something to compare it to?

Practical pressure testing and developing a hypothesis are not actually two separate processes, but parts of a gradual development. As I have explained above, any given technique has to be in accordance with martial arts principles. If there is a particular detailed source that describes technique, such as a combat treatise, then your technique must not contradict this source, either. If it is both in accordance with martial arts principles and available source material, it should be an appropriate interpretation. Fortunately, I have the privilege to train with very advanced and skilled fellow swordsmen, so it is quite easy to put any new ideas or refinements to the test in hands-on discussion. If we feel a new approach is worth pursuing, we start practicing and drilling it, and applying it in free play both inside and outside the school. Due to the constraints of combat simulation – namely training to injure and kill, while at the same time avoiding exactly this – we use various forms of free play: with or without protection, with weapon simulators or with true swords, that is sharp weapons. The use of sharp weapons in our training has been criticized repeatedly, yet using blunts exclusively will not allow for a number of crucial insights. For example, a blunt sword easily destroys a delicate authentic shield edge, while a sharp just leaves a clean cut or will get stuck and bound. Another example: Fighting a spearman with a blunt sword is a tough match, but a sharp sword is a game changer, as it allows for sensing where the spear will move next even without looking. We also regularly train in reconstructed period costume in authentic environments, which I find is crucial to understanding e.g. footwork etc.

In your work as a researcher you have handled many original pieces in museums all across Europe; what has been the most interesting or surprising Medieval artifact you've ever studied and why?

Actually, the most interesting original I ever handled preceded the medieval period by more than 2,000 years. It was a so-called Luristan sword, one of the oldest steel swords in history. Its hilt was very complex, and due to the shortness of the handle and the unique and extraordinary hilt fittings, scholars considered it to be a cultic object, as they could not make sense of its form and use. But playing with it for some 30 minutes, I realized that it was ingeniously designed to support all the various hand positions required for ascending and descending blows and thrusts that we are familiar with from the late medieval combat treatises.

You are currently working on a new book, "The Book of Sword and Shield," which will study in detail the art of fighting with swords and shields from 800 to 1350. What can you tell people about the progress you're making on that, and when should it be ready to purchase?

The book was originally designed to be but a more extensive version of a lecture I held at a conference at Freiburg University in 2012, comparing combat with blade binds to fighting with shield binds. However, as work progressed, I constantly got access to newly related artifacts, plus my combat expertise grew, too. At one point I also decided to include information that was hard to come by when I started my re-enactment career, e.g. what scabbards or sword handles looked like in a specific region and time period, and how they were made. By now, I have seen so much relevant original material that I actually have to get a first-hand impression of the pieces I have not yet seen, too. This means more correspondence, more travel, more documentation, making more revised replicas, more experimentation. So the project is like a dough that keeps expanding and swelling.

Some time ago, I realized that I had to split the material into two volumes, or else it would simply take way too long to see anything published. So I am now focusing on the time between 800 to 1200 which will be covered in volume I. I am striving for completion of this publication in 2020. I would like to take the occasion to express my heartfelt gratitude to all those patrons of mine who support my work via Patreon.com/Dimicator. Their contribution makes a huge difference in regards to time and money I can spend on research and documentation.

As you have researched the sword and shield combat arts, especially for your upcoming book, what has proven to be the most enlightening thing you've learned about the Medieval European warrior?

I would say that, in general, their expertise and skill must have been way beyond any of the achievements of modern enthusiasts. The more I learn, the more humble I become. This is actually true in regards to any historical craft, in my opinion.

What advice would you have for the HEMA fighter who also wants to delve into research, especially if their conclusions are going to be perceived as unconventional or odd?

Learn from the best. Remain true to what you believe in. Be humble, patient, and open-minded. Do not pay attention to those who are not.

In 2013 your started Dimicator, your own HEMA school; what has been your proudest or most satisfying moment as an instructor?

I do take some pride in the fact that my teachings have influenced the work of many instructors for sword and shield such as Mikkel Mønsted from Denmark, Chris Brecht and Arthur von Eschen from the US, Federico Malagutti and Daniele Imhoff from Italy, Maciej Skóra from Poland, Jean-Pascal Esparceil and Adrien Michard from France, Cornelius Berthold, Julia Gräf, Roland Fuhrmann and Martin Höppner from Germany, Cornelius Salgado-Nacke and Alban Depper from the UK, to name but a few.

What would you like folks to know about Berlin Buckler Bouts, the twice-annual sparring event for buckler fighting you manage?

The Berlin Buckler Bouts is a free event that offers all the things that I was looking for in vain elsewhere. When I was still regularly attending international HEMA events, I was always somewhat frustrated that the number of sparring partners with sufficient passion and stamina was lower than I had hoped for. I remember one occasion at Swordfish in Gothenburg, Sweden, when my good friend Mikkel Mønsted and myself were the last ones still fencing – as per usual – and Mikkel said that we could have just as well stayed at his place to do this. Greg Mele once told me that, at events, the best things happen in between classes. So I thought, why not create an event that exclusively consists of exactly these parts? And in my case, that would mean sparring, sparring, sparring. Plus, to become a good fighter, you have to fence as many different opponents as possible. In your club or school, the number of training partners is fairly limited. So in order to offer my students the chance to test their mettle against others to see where they actually stand in terms of proficiency, and to avoid becoming self-referential, I had arranged with Berlin-based HEMA club Twerchhau to meet on a regular basis for a weekend of sword and buckler sparring. We also invited other interested parties – and this is how the BBB came to be.

Any sword and buckler fighter is welcome to enjoy two days of intense nonstop free play with 30 to 40 practitioners from all over the world. For the first half of day one, every participant is obliged to wear a mask and go at slow motion. This does wonders to wear off any tension and anxiety. After the lunch break, people are free to choose any sparring mode and speed they like; however, we do encourage fencers to only go at a speed that the less skilled partner can cope with and to use minimal or no protective gear. In fact, we want to promote slow play as a learning tool that helps to fence safely, and at the same time improve skills at arms in a most efficient and enjoyable way.

Novices who are in their first year of buckler training are welcome; however, if you have less than six months of regular buckler combat training under your belt, we recommend to wait until next time. There are no classes, only occasional demos and hands-on discussions. In addition, there is always room for combat with other types of shields, and there also is an area assigned to practice with sharp swords. While the event is designed for advanced free fencers first and foremost, it also offers an ideal entry into sparring for those who have according technical proficiency. There is no need to be anxious at all. The atmosphere is a very calm and cheerful one. People are devoted and dedicated and helping each other, there is no competitive pressure. This is what makes the BBB special. To have your name added to the invitational list, just drop me a line via email.

I take pride in the high level of control, responsibility, and common sense displayed by attendees. In literally thousands of fights with minimum protection (or none at all), including fencing with sharp swords, over the course of eleven weekends, the injury record is two bleeding eye-brows and a minor stab wound in the elbow pit (none of which kept them from pursuing fencing). Some may argue that protective gear would have prevented these injuries. In theory this would be true. However, the injury record of events that rely on heavy gear is much worse. The most common injury in heavy gear HEMA-based sports competition is fractured fingers. This is most deplorable in a number of respects. According to my experience and observations, exposing your hands as you strike is the kind of bad mechanics owed to over-zeal and a lack of danger awareness, both of which are triggered and supported by relying on safety gear too much.

With every interview I do I like to include one question that's just for fun, so...can you please explain the mismatched footie stockings and the skin tight blue shirt?!

My former longterm fencing partner Tobias "Toke" Wenzel had always been very picky about equipment. He introduced the snug fit sports shirts for the production of our 2011 buckler DVD. They are actually very comfortable and more breathable than your standard cotton t-shirt. When I chose colors for Dimicator, I went for cyan blue and orange in contrast to the widespread black. Makes you stand out in group photos and helps seeing detail in demo videos. So the orange stirrup stocking is part of the Dimicator branding. Black and white are the colors of BBB hosting club Twerchau, which I wear as a token of friendship.