Jessica Finley is the author of "Medieval Wrestling: Modern Practice of a 15th Century Art" which was published in 2014 by Freelance Academy Press, and her paper on medieval wrestling can also be found in the collection "In the Service of Mars," a selection of pieces on historical martial arts from the same publisher. She was awarded "Best researcher or interpreter" for 2015 in the HEMA Scholar Awards for her published book.
Her independent research in the area of textiles has included work on sixteenth-century Irish menswear but is currently focused on fifteenth-century fabric armor. She has published an article “The Lübeck Wappenröcke: Distinctive Style in Fifteenth-Century German Fabric Armor”, in Medieval Clothing and Textiles 13, published by Boydell and Brewer regarding her study of the original garment held in Lübeck.
Jessica has studied medieval swordsmanship and martial arts for more than a dozen years, founding a school near her home in North Georgia called "Ritterkunst Fechtschule" and continues to publish on her blog under that same name. She is a founding member of the United States Historical Ringen Association and encourages the study of medieval martial arts worldwide. Jessica is a frequent instructor at international historical martial arts conferences.
Just as I like to start each of these interviews, can you tell everyone your martial arts background and how you first became interested in HEMA? What first attracted you to deepen your studies at Selohaar Fechtschule?
Initially, I became interested in swordplay through fantasy novels and D&D. I jokingly call this the “Dork Path” to HEMA.
In 1997 I heard about a group that was starting up in Topeka, Kansas, where I lived at the time, which was teaching swordsmanship. It was a stage combat group, and at first the difference between ‘pretending to fight for the purpose of telling a story’ and ‘learning sword techniques which are historical’ wasn’t obvious to me, but after a few years at Renaissance Festivals, I began to think “this is great, but how did they really fight?” In February of 2003, I took a seminar with Christian Tobler, asked to be taken on as a long-distance student, and after that began my transition from stage fighting to historical martial art.
I also studied Judo for a number of years, as I had always wanted to wrestle. I’m of an age where it was not acceptable for young women to participate in collegiate wrestling, so despite always being interested, it wasn’t an option for me to study. When I found Judo I was thrilled and found I really enjoyed the stand-up quality of that grappling art.
I quit Judo in 2008 in order to fully devote myself to the study of HEMA. By that time I had two kids and a small HEMA club, and there simply was not enough time to pursue two divergent martial arts.
In 2014 your book, Medieval Wrestling: Modern Practice of a Fifteenth-Century Art, was published, in which you focus on the wrestling of German master Ott Jud. What was it about Ott's art or style that you found most interesting, so much so you'd take the time to develop a book recapturing his work? What would you say is one surprising or unexpected lesson you learned from his work, even if it isn't really related to Ringen at all?
It is funny, really, as I didn’t particularly set out to write a book. Around 2006, I was working with a very early translation of the so-called “von Danzig” fight book, and I had noticed Ott’s treatise in the back of that translation. I called Christian Tobler and asked him, “Hey, so do you have an interpretation of this treatise?” He said, “Nope, you’re gonna have to do that.” Pretty much right away, I set to trying to work out the treatise and interpret the techniques in it.
As I continued to work with it, I thought it might be helpful to write down my ideas on the interpretations, inspired by a little book called “The Sport of Judo” by Kobayashi and Sharp. It was a great book to use to supplement my learning on the mat when I studied Judo, and I thought having that kind of thing would be really great for Ott’s Ringen techniques. Of course, I thought it would be a little pdf that I’d throw up somewhere, but as I continued on it, more and more people suggested it could be a book, and so I expanded the manuscript and scope of the project.
What I found most interesting in my research for the book was not about Ott, but instead, how very little has been written about medieval wrestling. I checked out all of the books I could find on historical wrestling in English, using Inter-Library Loan extensively. In one particularly notable case, I was the most recent person to check out a certain book since 1932! Time after time, these books would have sixty pages on classical Greek and Roman wrestling, ten pages on medieval wrestling, and then hundreds on wrestling from the 18th century to present. I cannot adequately express how very frustrating I found this pattern.
While we're on the subject of Ringen, do you think HEMA schools and the community as a whole makes a mistake by going straight to the weapons without first training new students in grappling? What do you believe are the benefits to a weapons fighter who has a strong basis in Ringen? Any thoughts on how the community can get more folks interested in Ringen? And finally, what do you personally like most about this foundational HEMA skill?
I don’t think I would say that one should learn Ringen first, as most people interested in HEMA come out because they want to use swords. Swords are sexy. They allow one to have a distance from their opponent. They inspire people and fire imaginations.
Typically, wrestling doesn’t inspire in the same way. One has to get close and personal with their opponent. Height and weight advantages are exacerbated. The intimacy needed to wrestle occasionally runs up against societal norms in mixed-gender training. In other words, for a modern person raised in western society, there are a number of mental and physical hurdles to overcome in order to fall in love with Ringen.
Due to all of this, I don’t require someone interested in HEMA to wrestle first, but instead to wrestle concurrent with their study of the sword. Certain safety skills, such as being competent at falling safely, are an absolute must even if one has no interest in Ringen as a pursuit.
Additionally, I think it is important to be able to understand fight principles across weapon systems and integrated study of swordsmanship and wrestling can be of great help for this. For instance, at a recent class, I structured the lesson so that we began by wrestling: attacking the head with the hands to draw a block, then shifting to attacking the knee for a single-leg throw (from Wallerstein). If that is defended by the opponent slipping their leg, then you attack to the other side with a Zwerch-Ringen (also from Wallerstein). Then we picked up our swords and attacked the face with an Ansetzen from Pflug. When the opponent parried that we immediately attacked the lower opening with an Unterhau. If that was defended against, then we attack the other side. Here we can see that the pursuit of these openings is in the same order whether in Ringen or with a sword.
The reality is that if we allow Ringen-am-Schwert, which almost all tournaments do, then a so-called “weapons-fighter” must learn to wrestle to defend themselves against an opponent who closes to wrestling distance. Further, if one wants to be able to exploit all of the openings with a weapon, one must know how to come to wrestling techniques. To be honest, wrestling with a sword is harder than wrestling without because at least one of your hands is caught up on the sword instead of the opponent. Learn the throw without the sword, become competent and safe in the throw, then apply it with the sword in hand. It seems to me that if it were more clear to people how Ringen teaches Fühlen, Indes, and attacking openings in succession using combined techniques, people would be much more keen to overcome their misgivings about wrestling.
Instead, as a community, we have presented Ringen as an adjunct to swordplay rather than an integrated study. This is, I believe, the source of so many misunderstandings about the Art as a whole. Our sources seem to present themselves as disconnected techniques, both in Bloßfechten and in Ringen. However, in both cases, techniques have very low success rates as disconnected ideas. We all know that Scheitelhau breaks Alber, but if we don’t realize that you must use Nachreisen and Überlauffen with our Scheitelhau, we will get hit on the hands every time. This integration of concepts is what Ringen teaches and why I love it so much.
If someone really wanted to focus on and perfect their Ringen, what would you say is the absolute most important single skills for them to work on?
This is an extremely difficult question with a simple answer: Fühlen. To be successful with wrestling (or any other martial pursuit) you must learn to feel the opportunities for attacks as they are coming to be. If you wait until the opportunity is fully realized, then your attack can be easily countered. This is easily shown by the example I gave, above, of countering Alber with Scheitelhau. If the opponent is sitting and chilling in Alber, it is risky to attack. If they are on their way to Alber, it is easy to attack. Likewise, if the opponent is standing with parallel feet and neutral weight, it is risky to try a turn-around forward throw (placing your back on their front to throw them forwards). If, however, you have set them up to lean forwards because they are anticipating an attack to send them backwards, a forward throw is safe. Fühlen is the sense that lets you know the time and pressure are correct for your attack.
The idea of practicing Fühlen can seem fruitless, as having it is something that takes time to develop. That said, the key to practicing your sense of pressure and timing is to practice techniques in isolation against a neutral partner. Next, layer pressure into the practice so that you can work to create the conditions under which the technique will flower. For instance, to throw forwards, you have to first pull the neutral opponent onto their forward balance point.
Next, layer timing onto the technique: Pull the opponent when they are tending to come forwards on their own power, then turn around and throw. After enough iterations of this it stops feeling like you are forcing the condition, and more like the condition is arising of its own accord. This is the time to begin to combine techniques: Push the opponent backward, and if he resists forwards, pull, turn and throw. This example is a simplified one, to fit the purpose of this discussion, but hopefully an enlightening one.
In addition to being known in the HEMA community as a researcher and grappler, you have also been involved in the development of a highly popular commercially available Ringen jacket, as well as one designed for fencing. You also previously created custom-made gambesons for folks through your company Fuhlen Designs. What first attracted you to designing, developing, and producing fighting garb? When working with manufacturers to make a commercially available jacket, in what ways do you draw on the past to produce something for the modern fencer?
Much like my study of swordsmanship went from play to reality; my study of medieval clothes went from costume to recreation. When I first began performing on stage, I couldn’t afford to pay for commercial costumes, but I did have some skill with sewing and a willingness to learn, so I threw myself into making costumes for first myself, and eventually our whole group.
After some time, I quit being interested in “faking” the historical thing and became much more interested in the methods and processes by which medieval people made things. Quilted fabric armor is the most interesting to me, as it has little written about it, particularly in comparison to other forms of medieval clothing.
In 2013 I had the opportunity to go to Lübeck, Germany and see two of the 15th century padded fabric armors there, and to personally examine and measure one of them. This led me to realize that the people making these garments must have had more than needle and thimble in their toolset, which made the entire study even more interesting. In the case of historical sewing, it’s the methods of production that interest me; certainly, more than the mechanical action of sewing itself.
Fühlen Designs is no longer functioning as a commercial business for a number of personal reasons, but the desire from the community for my jackets was still quite high after I closed shop. This is when I decided to license SPES to produce the “JF” line of jackets based on my original designs. As always happens when something goes from a small boutique seller to a large commercial producer, some aspects of the jackets were changed, but, overall, I am quite happy with their application of my ideas. The community wants their clothes to be clearly modern, with a nod to the historical line. It was this which was the primary influence for the “JF” designs. Anyone who studies true medieval and renaissance clothing wouldn’t see them as particularly historical: they are quite modern.
This modern approach was key for me, as I wanted to give the community a “cheap uniform” so that people could practice their swordsmanship with a unified look and minimal protection. Likewise, the Ringen jacket is an amalgam of early Renaissance jackets with all the modern conveniences and safety modifications we require. They are easy to pull-on, can be washed in a machine, and lack closures that could catch fingers or scratch faces during wrestling actions. They aren’t a medieval or renaissance jackets, though, so they lack some qualities that those would have such as tying to the hips and being extremely tight to the body. That said, I still feel they are more useful than none for practicing many medieval techniques.
As part of your textile-producing work, you have traveled the world to examine existing remnants of historical gambesons in various museums. When closely working with a piece from the Medieval or Renaissance period, a piece of clothing that was worn by one of the fighters our art tries to emulate, do it find it awe-inspiring to think this piece of cloth was actually worn by someone who practiced our shared art, and have an almost spiritual connection to the past in that moment, or do you take a more clinical, distanced view?
Certainly, there is a sense of wonder that comes with holding a garment that is hundreds of years old. I was shaking with adrenaline when I got to go into the St. Annen museum’s back room and hold the Lübeck Wappenrock. Quickly, however, for me, the feeling faded as I was overcome with the desire to understand how this thing was made. Intellectual curiosity is a powerful drug.
What would you say have been some of the most surprising or enlightening things you've learned by examining these surviving historical textiles?
I will answer this question taking a circuitous route. It is easy, as a modern person, to look to earlier times and see them as simplistic or quaint. Even when we know that medieval people built such amazing works of engineering as the Notre Dame Cathedral or of art like the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, we will still fall prey to the logical fallacy that they were “simple”. Perhaps it is hubris, we like to see ourselves as the pinnacle of our human evolution. Perhaps it is confusion between our complex gadgets (most of which we have only the barest of understanding of how they work) and the complexity of a time-consuming craft like weaving (also of which most of us have no conception). For Americans, I think we take the mythical “Wild West” and overlay that onto Europe of the middle ages with such inaccurate beliefs as swords being made by the local blacksmith/farrier, all cloth being woven and sewn into clothing by “mom”, and mid-day duels on the street with no consequences for the “victor”. The reality is by the 15th century, much of Europe’s society was as specialized and structured as modern American society, and a person back then is as likely to make their own garments as you are today. In any case, we simply live with this logical inconsistency largely unchallenged.
Upon confronting the reality of something like the Lübeck Wappenröcke, it is made clear that these garments were made in a specialized shop, with specialized tools, by people who were masters at this craft. The fabric for my reproduction was woven by an artisan, as it is not available commercially, using over 100 hours of the weaver’s and her assistant’s time. The specialist knowledge I had to develop (spinning fiber, weaving patterns, medieval cotton industries and technologies, 15c fabric paint production) to begin to understand this garment required uncounted hours. The patterning, cutting, sewing, and painting of the garment used nearly 300 hours of my time.
When we look at medieval fight books, and the art contained within, we should consider that their physical arts were as developed as their philosophy, religion, architecture, and fine arts. The complexity of the Kunst des Fechten is no less than the complexity of the Mona Lisa when done at it’s best. And while not every medieval person could be a DaVinci, their potential was as great as his.
One final question in regards to your textile work: With the recent controversy regarding the SCA king and queen who incorporated swastikas into their regalia, what would you say to people who insist on using symbols which are now clearly associated with hate but justify it due to the historical legitimacy at the given time period? How should people balance capturing precise historical accuracy with not promoting hate-filled symbols?
I put on my Fühlen Designs page this statement: “While the swastika shows up in many historical garments, I would not and will not recreate these forms. At least four tribes of native peoples renounced the use of it in their art because it had come to represent evil. Frankly, I think it still does, regardless of its historical use. So I choose to follow in the wisdom of artists who willingly gave up a symbol of their own in order to renounce evil. [a picture of Florence Smiley and Evelyn Yathe, Navajos of Tucson, Arizona are shown signing the imposing parchment document which formally outlawed the Swastika symbol from designs in Indian art, such as basket and blanket weaving.] The document reads: 'Because the above ornament which has been a symbol of friendship among our forefathers for many centuries has been desecrated recently by another nation of peoples, Therefore it is resolved that henceforth from this date on and forever more our tribes renounce the use of the emblem commonly known today as the swastika or fylfot on our blankets, baskets, art objects, sand paintings, and clothing'.”
If the Navajo people can give up a symbol that was extremely important to their culture because it has been desecrated, how much more easily can I avoid it as a reenactor? Should a museum wish to have a recreation made, with the item presented in context, I have no problem with that. But for a modern person to wear such a symbol without context (or worse, with unclear context) is foolhardy at best, and downright wrong at worst. Let us never minimize the evil done under that symbol.
In addition to Ringen and Longsword, you are also known in the community as a Harnischfechter. How did you first become attracted to this art? What are the strengths and weaknesses of fighting in a full set of armor? Do you find there are any things you can take from your Harnischfechen practice to apply to unarmored Longsword?
To be honest, at first, I had very little interest in fighting in Harness. It was the least-compelling part of the Art to me. However, I have always wanted to pursue the Art as a whole, believing (correctly as it turns out) that there are lessons encoded in Liechtenauer’s verse as a whole that aren’t necessarily taught in all of the places. That is, pursuing openings in harness teach you about pursuing them more effectively in bloßfechten. Performing Zucken with the spear or Durchwechseln at half-sword in harness helps you to perform them with the sword out of harness: for the Fühlen is the same despite the technique being different.
Fighting in harness is a great strengthener of your body, of course, as performing physical feats under extra weight is likely to do. In my case, I’m adding about 65lbs to my 135lb frame, which is not much less gross weight than some of my opponents are adding to their 200lb frames! The limited vision in a helmet is a great developer for Fühlen because you can’t see well where various moving parts are at, so you have to develop a sense for it. The limited breath in a helmet is like training at altitude. Once you get used to performing with less air than typical, to open up the face is an oxygenic blessing. Finally, there is the quality of mental toughness that comes with fighting in harness. There really is no such thing as a one-hit-kill in harness (probably not in bloßfechten either, but that’s a harder sell). That means most fights would have continued to pure physical exhaustion unless someone is greatly outmatched. In our case, this is even more true as we aren’t receiving harassing wounds from which we are bleeding and becoming more quickly fatigued, rather, we have to keep fighting despite receiving blows and thrusts. Most armored fights (between matched opponents in a duel) end with one opponent on the ground before they are ended. This mental fortitude to fight past physical exhaustion is something I am working to develop, and I think one of the most important lessons of the Harness.
In reference to the questions above, do you prefer to use Longsword while in harness, or Poleaxe, or some other weapon? Why is this your armored weapon of choice?
I study all of the weapons in harness, but I prefer the sword for its versatility. I can use it in a similar manner to unarmored fighting, falling to the halfsword guards only after passing the longer distance. I can use the blade or pommel to strike, use the cross as a hook, and use the weapon as a lever for joint locks or throwing the opponent. It can be long or short, as is needed, and lends itself to staying at the weapon rather than falling to the wrestling from the outset. For all that I love wrestling, I really do enjoy play at the weapon’s length!
On your YouTube channel, you often show snippets of your training. What does a regular daily individual training session look like for you? How often do you teach/train with others on a weekly basis?
I do some form of training every day. This can be as simple as running through messer plays with a big spoon while I’m cooking my family’s dinner or as complex as a 2-hour session downstairs in my salle with the pendelziel (metal hanging pell from Purpleheart Armory) or the punching bag. Most days fall between this extreme, where I will get in a hike and some weapon work.
I teach 3x per week (4.5-6 hrs) and try to get as much training as I can while not neglecting students in the class. As our club is rather small and has a wide range of experience, it is important to me that I provide critique and correction where needed. Sometimes that is best done by me being the drilling partner (certainly this is my favorite way to instruct)!
Also, I offer “Weekend Intensives” for people who wish to come and train for a long weekend at my house: kind-of like a bed and breakfast for swords enthusiasts. These are scheduled one a month, and are usually one-on-one, which gives me a solid 20-30 hours of individual instruction and drilling. I adore really digging deep with a student, exploring what they are interested in, pushing them physically, and challenging them to see things in a new way.
Have you been researching anything new lately, and if so what are you looking into?
Right now I am deeply embedded in research of medieval tree diagrams and how that relates to the Roßfechten trees in the “von Danzig” manuscript. Understanding how those figures work has been revolutionary to understanding how the Bloßfechten verse is structured, and how Liechtenauer and his students may have intended the Art to be understood. There are many side-shoots to this research, including medieval allegorical hunting poetry, which shares many terms and ideas with the fencing language, and has informed further my understanding of how one is to see the Art. Related to this, I have a small study group working to understand the Ars Magna of Raymon Lull, a 13th-century writer who influenced the medieval use of tree forms and circular diagrams as a way to study the connection between ideas and to answer questions in logical manners.
Of course, I continue to research Ringen pedagogy and have been working intensely with the wrestling in Wallerstein to understand it’s structure, and what that tells us about how these techniques should be strung together in a fight.
A standard question I've come to ask in these interviews of people who are instructors: What are the most important lessons you've learned from your students over the years?
With every interview I do I like to include one question that's a little silly and just for fun, so...have you ever seen someone wearing one of the commercially available wrestling jackets that bear your name and you think, "Oh, I look waaaaaaay better in that than you do."?
HAHAHA!! No, I don’t believe I’ve ever had that thought. Instead, I am amazed and humbled every time I look around a room and see so many people wearing my design. To have influenced the fashion of an entire subculture is pretty damn cool.
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